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	<title>Comments on: Historical Amnesia: The Disappearance of the Olympic Salute</title>
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	<link>http://citizenhistorian.com/2007/06/26/historical-amnesia-the-disappearance-of-the-olympic-salute/</link>
	<description>The Unrewarded Amateur Conscience</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 03:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tan Chye Guan</title>
		<link>http://citizenhistorian.com/2007/06/26/historical-amnesia-the-disappearance-of-the-olympic-salute/comment-page-1/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan Chye Guan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 18:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizenhistorian.com/2007/06/26/historical-amnesia-the-disappearance-of-the-olympic-salute/#comment-138</guid>
		<description>Thanks for taking an interest and fowarding extra information, Tinny. While no socialist myself, I am very skeptical of the general crusade Dr Curry launches against all things remotely carrying that name. He has some very good and strong evidence for making good claims on individual points, but also uses very misleading photos to make outlandish suggestions, especially about life in Singapore. This will weaken confidence in his other claims.

1)No one in Singapore will take the picture of children with outstretched arms during a parade as evidence of any socialist tendencies of the PAP. It was not and has never been standard practice here. Our salute, the standard fingers to the eyebrow salute, is the same one adopted by just about every non-socialist country in the world. There has never been any heel-clicking or goose-stepping here either. Older soldiers moved their right arm up in a curved motion, as oppossed to the present sharp angular one, supposedly emulating early Taiwanese practices. Compare any photo you see of Singapore parades from independence till today with the ones he used and you will find no straight armed or socialist clenched-fist salutes anywhere. 

2) Veteran opposition stalwart Mr JB Jeyeratnam used Singapore's pressured resignation from the Socialist International as ammunition for the PAP's lack of socialist credentials- his party, the Workers' Party- not the PAP, represents the centre-left in Singapore politics. 

3) All hard core socialist elements were expelled from the PAP during the Barisan Socialis split- when the PAP was actually reduced to a minority government for a short period. Critics see it as THE number one enemy of socialism since the late 1960s, not its flag-bearer. The PAP's undisputed achievements revolve around economics. It has always adopted measures too capitalistic for its rivals to stomach, though it certainly has openly statist tendencies.

3) The hand-over-the-heart gesture is now almost universal and the lightning bolt PAP symbol, even it was fascist or socialist in origin (I have grave doubts but would leave this to be addressed by someone who would actually knows for sure), evokes no such sympathies in the heart of the average Singaporean.

4) There are justifiable grounds for concluding that there is some affinity between the CCP and the PAP. This was certainly not the case before the end of the Cold War when anything remotely communist would be hunted down in this part of the world. Communist cells were still being uncovered and arrested in the 1980s (admittedly, there were very few communists left to arrest). The affinity however, comes from the CCP's desire to adopt a capitalist economy without adopting western liberal democracy in its entirety. No one, including the PAP leaders, would claim that it is a liberal democratic party as understood in the west. Yet the PAP has never had any intention of adopting even post-Deng CCP principles- ideological influence is flowing only one way and not much at that. Check out problems between the two sides over China's Suzhou Industrial Park for a more representative and telling picture of their ideological relationship, if one can even call it that.   

Thanks again for bringing in more resources for perusal, Tinny. 
Would you have any insights to share on what is generally thought to be the leftist clenched-fist salute? Is there any relation between this or the straight-armed salute and the black-power straight-up clenched-fist salute of the Montreal Games (1976)? Do you know why Dr Curry sees the straight-armed salute, rather than its main rival in 20th Centruy history as the socialist one?

Much obliged,
Chye Guan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for taking an interest and fowarding extra information, Tinny. While no socialist myself, I am very skeptical of the general crusade Dr Curry launches against all things remotely carrying that name. He has some very good and strong evidence for making good claims on individual points, but also uses very misleading photos to make outlandish suggestions, especially about life in Singapore. This will weaken confidence in his other claims.</p>
<p>1)No one in Singapore will take the picture of children with outstretched arms during a parade as evidence of any socialist tendencies of the PAP. It was not and has never been standard practice here. Our salute, the standard fingers to the eyebrow salute, is the same one adopted by just about every non-socialist country in the world. There has never been any heel-clicking or goose-stepping here either. Older soldiers moved their right arm up in a curved motion, as oppossed to the present sharp angular one, supposedly emulating early Taiwanese practices. Compare any photo you see of Singapore parades from independence till today with the ones he used and you will find no straight armed or socialist clenched-fist salutes anywhere. </p>
<p>2) Veteran opposition stalwart Mr JB Jeyeratnam used Singapore&#8217;s pressured resignation from the Socialist International as ammunition for the PAP&#8217;s lack of socialist credentials- his party, the Workers&#8217; Party- not the PAP, represents the centre-left in Singapore politics. </p>
<p>3) All hard core socialist elements were expelled from the PAP during the Barisan Socialis split- when the PAP was actually reduced to a minority government for a short period. Critics see it as THE number one enemy of socialism since the late 1960s, not its flag-bearer. The PAP&#8217;s undisputed achievements revolve around economics. It has always adopted measures too capitalistic for its rivals to stomach, though it certainly has openly statist tendencies.</p>
<p>3) The hand-over-the-heart gesture is now almost universal and the lightning bolt PAP symbol, even it was fascist or socialist in origin (I have grave doubts but would leave this to be addressed by someone who would actually knows for sure), evokes no such sympathies in the heart of the average Singaporean.</p>
<p>4) There are justifiable grounds for concluding that there is some affinity between the CCP and the PAP. This was certainly not the case before the end of the Cold War when anything remotely communist would be hunted down in this part of the world. Communist cells were still being uncovered and arrested in the 1980s (admittedly, there were very few communists left to arrest). The affinity however, comes from the CCP&#8217;s desire to adopt a capitalist economy without adopting western liberal democracy in its entirety. No one, including the PAP leaders, would claim that it is a liberal democratic party as understood in the west. Yet the PAP has never had any intention of adopting even post-Deng CCP principles- ideological influence is flowing only one way and not much at that. Check out problems between the two sides over China&#8217;s Suzhou Industrial Park for a more representative and telling picture of their ideological relationship, if one can even call it that.   </p>
<p>Thanks again for bringing in more resources for perusal, Tinny.<br />
Would you have any insights to share on what is generally thought to be the leftist clenched-fist salute? Is there any relation between this or the straight-armed salute and the black-power straight-up clenched-fist salute of the Montreal Games (1976)? Do you know why Dr Curry sees the straight-armed salute, rather than its main rival in 20th Centruy history as the socialist one?</p>
<p>Much obliged,<br />
Chye Guan</p>
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		<title>By: Tinny Ray</title>
		<link>http://citizenhistorian.com/2007/06/26/historical-amnesia-the-disappearance-of-the-olympic-salute/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Tinny Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizenhistorian.com/2007/06/26/historical-amnesia-the-disappearance-of-the-olympic-salute/#comment-137</guid>
		<description>By the way, the author above is currently a Masters candidate at the Department of History, National University of Singapore.  The following article might also be of interest on the Peoples Action Party PAP of Singapore
http://rexcurry.net/peoples-action-party-pap-singapore-socialism.html

It has related points regarding the stiff-arm salute gesture and other symbolism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, the author above is currently a Masters candidate at the Department of History, National University of Singapore.  The following article might also be of interest on the Peoples Action Party PAP of Singapore<br />
<a href="http://rexcurry.net/peoples-action-party-pap-singapore-socialism.html" rel="nofollow">http://rexcurry.net/peoples-action-party-pap-singapore-socialism.html</a></p>
<p>It has related points regarding the stiff-arm salute gesture and other symbolism.</p>
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		<title>By: Tinny Ray</title>
		<link>http://citizenhistorian.com/2007/06/26/historical-amnesia-the-disappearance-of-the-olympic-salute/comment-page-1/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>Tinny Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizenhistorian.com/2007/06/26/historical-amnesia-the-disappearance-of-the-olympic-salute/#comment-135</guid>
		<description>Good post, including the references to the noted historian Dr. Rex Curry. Professor Curry is an international treasure for his work showing that the USA's Pledge of Allegiance to the flag was the origin of the Olympic salute and the salute of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. 
http://rexcurry.net/pledge-of-allegiance-images.html

As you continue to investigate the Olympic salute, you will be surprised to learn of its source from the author of the Pledge, Francis Bellamy, a self-proclaimed socialist in the Nationalism movement, who promoted Military Socialism.  That is another reason for the deafening silence from the IOC (and from government and media in the USA) as you remarked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, including the references to the noted historian Dr. Rex Curry. Professor Curry is an international treasure for his work showing that the USA&#8217;s Pledge of Allegiance to the flag was the origin of the Olympic salute and the salute of the National Socialist German Workers&#8217; Party.<br />
<a href="http://rexcurry.net/pledge-of-allegiance-images.html" rel="nofollow">http://rexcurry.net/pledge-of-allegiance-images.html</a></p>
<p>As you continue to investigate the Olympic salute, you will be surprised to learn of its source from the author of the Pledge, Francis Bellamy, a self-proclaimed socialist in the Nationalism movement, who promoted Military Socialism.  That is another reason for the deafening silence from the IOC (and from government and media in the USA) as you remarked.</p>
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